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Observing with Small Apertures: 130mm and Below

Discussion in 'Telescopes and Mounts' started by Ray of Light, Jul 26, 2016.

Observing with Small Apertures: 130mm and Below

Started by Ray of Light on Jul 26, 2016 at 5:34 AM

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  1. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    "Those who talk, walk!" I hereby nominate you, Ray, for President!

    Ask Trump if he can spare some Secret-Service agents for protection,

    Dave
     
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  2. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    venus lq2.png

    Well, here’s a potential target for a small scope. Venus reaches Last Quarter (maximum elongation) on January 13th.

    VenusVPA LQ.jpg

    I should be able to see it at around 16.15 GMT (50.46%). I've seen cloud detail with a 130mm aperture but only the phase is really apparent lower than around a 5" scope.

    venus lq.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  3. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Mak: Are you using Stellarium to make these images with? The one of an orange Martian sky and the above Earth landscape? I haven't played with that function yet.

    Dave
     
  4. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Starry Night 7 and the Virtual Planet Atlas.

    GIMP.png

    With a little help from GIMP.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  5. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I’ve just been viewing some targets in Orion. The Orion Nebula, obviously, but also the Little Beehive (near Orion) and a very faint M78. Easy to miss in a small scope but I found it with the 90mm Apex.

    M78.png

    I usually try to home in on TYC116-899-1 and HIP27309 at the top of the cloud first for location purposes. It was obviously a lot fainter than this picture, and with no colour, but I could see it with the Apex at 31x, 39x, 50x and 66x. I used Baader Neodymium and UHC-S filters.
     
  6. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    OK Dave, I've remembered how to view stuff from Mars on Stellarium. First find Mars then centre it and press Ctrl G. That should take you to the Martian surface. You can then change the background to Mars.

    earthrise.png
    You can see Venus and Earth rising in the Martian morning.

    Australia.png
    Zooming in you can see Australia and the South Pole.

    venus.png

    And a waxing Venus.

    phobos1.png
    Above you can see Phobos setting as Venus and Earth rise. I'm running an older version of Stellarium on Ubuntu. Stellarium doesn't portray the Martian sky in the correct colour, it should be red.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  7. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Mak. But I never have used that on Stellarium - yet. After the 0.15.1 upgrades, it has so many new functions/possibles it's hardly recognizable! Wild! :D Go grab one if you havent already. They really 'went-to-town!'


    stellarium-235.png

    Off to my files...

    Dave
     
  8. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I'm OK with v0.12.4 on Ubuntu. I won't run it on Windows now. I haven't for at least five years. The past few upgrades have been a bit of a bugfest. I prefer CDC anyway. Plus I now have Starry Night 7.
     
  9. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    It's often said that M78 can't be seen in small scopes. I don't have a great deal of LP to my south and I'm 152 metres above MSL on the edge of the greenbelt in a Bortle 2/3 area.

    M78 fx.png

    This rendition above (originally a Starry Nights 7 screenshot) and tweaked a bit with GIMP and PhotoFiltre 7 is as close as I can get to what I could actually see early this morning. The nebula cloud in the picture is actually brighter than I could perceive through the 90mm Apex, but with some patience it could be just about viewed. It's interesting that the best views were with a 25mm Plossl (50x) and a 19mm TeleVue Panoptic (65.7x) with a Baader Neodymium filter. Although the nebula cloud could be just about made out with 32mm (39x) and 40mm (31.25x) Plossls utilising the UHC-S. Again, this took considerable patience though and it helps to know what you're looking for. The view with the 25mm Plossl and a 0.5x reducer (25x) was no better than with the longer length Plossls. The ST80 would probably have been the more logical choice of scope for M78. I never really saw it with the f/11.1 Omegon MightyMak even though I could locate the two stars at the top of the nebula. It is a testament to the Synta optics in the 90mm Apex.
     
  10. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of small scopes, I mounted my ST80 and put my 8x50 and WO diagonal on for now. My Meade case came so my 102 is safely tucked away in it. It's not too bad for the money and my purposes. I ordered another GSO 8x50 in white for the ST so it will match and I can put my existing one back on the 102. When I can I will get another WO diagonal. It actually almost gave me a heart attack because it was swiveling at the nosepiece and I thought the screws holding the diagonal were not strong enough to hold the X-Cel eyepiece I had put on there. Then I realized the nosepiece was loose! I tightened it and all seems well. I do wish I could get a sturdier reducer for the ST like I did with the 102 but the one on the ST screws in I believe. Any ideas? IMG_0585.JPG

    If not it should be ok but I will have to watch the weight. I do have some smaller LER eyepieces but would like to use larger ones too. Arm dead, back later.
     
  11. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Looks good. Did the diagonal nosepiece unthread or was it the ST80 focuser itself? As that can actually unthread accidentally. It happened to me when I tried the binoviewer. It just needs to be screwed back in. The focuser set screws are pretty good though and can take some weight. I think you'd have to replace the whole focuser to get a 2" adaptor.

    The only problem for me is aiming at the zenith and much lower. If I have the Vixen tripod legs extended long enough to be able to sit and observe the zenith comfortably, when I lower the objective declination the OTA rotates down from the vertical correspondingly raising the eyepiece height.

    The solution to this is by rotating the diagonal usually to the right so that the eyepiece isn't vertical anymore. In this way the alt-az slo mo controls are also both still easily accessible and I sit to the right of the scope OTA, not unlike a Newtonian.

    This, however, presents another problem. Excessively tall and heavy eyepieces and Barlows can be prone to rotating the diagonal itself. This is why I bought the X-Cel 3x Barlow. Short and light Barlows with small eyepieces like Plossls and orthoscopics work well I find.

    To be honest, the ST80 is hard work to get high magnifications with. Although it does it well. If you're viewing the Moon or planets you only need to set it up to view in the plane of the ecliptic anyway. So you can set the tripod leg height low enough to keep the diagonal upright and still sit comfortably. I find sitting and viewing is much better for long periods of observing trying to tease detail out of objects.
     
  12. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about doing more double star observing. Ideal for small telescopes and an alt-az. The ST80 should be brilliant at this, although both my Mak's should be capable.

    DSA1.jpg

    Luckily, Father Christmas brought me The Cambridge Double Star Atlas 2nd Edition (the Vegemite's mine of course lol).

    DSA2.jpg

    This article is interesting from Sky & Telescope: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/obse...ts-to-watch/pretty-double-stars-for-everyone/
     
  13. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    It was the diagonal nosepiece that unthreaded, not the focuser. I wasn't even aware the nosepiece unscrewed like that! Learn things every day. I guess the ST focuser is not 2", so maybe Agena or somebody has a 1 1/2" sturdier screw in replacement for the stock one.
    I took your advice and bought the GSO 8x50 first, in white, from Agena. I swapped out the WO diagonal until I get another. My Fringe Killer is still threaded on the WO, I want to see what it does for the ST80. I really hope this new scope will help me get through this rough period until I can use both the ST and the 102. Thoughts?
     
  14. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the diagonal nosepiece and eyepiece holders unscrew. It's useful if you want to clean the prism surface. The reason why I spent so much on a decent alt-az and the ST80 and the Apex is that they are small but very good scopes for what they are.

    As you know, I have a lot of mobility issues too. The Big Cat will be great when I set it up in warmer weather. It will probably take an hour to set up though, let alone take down after a session. At least the GOTO will do a lot of the work and I'll just be along for the ride lol.

    Meanwhile I needed a small scope and mount which will enable me to observe from the zenith to the horizon. As I've got more range and dexterity back into my right arm and leg I've been able to use the Bazooka a lot this year. I'm still confined to the plane of the ecliptic or thereabouts though. I originally bought the Skymax as the Bazooka was a handful. When I bought the Skymax my right arm was almost totally paralysed. I also realised that the zenith problem wasn't totally solved with the Skymax though as it had an EQ2 mount. Although it was an improvement on the Bazooka. It was great for lunar viewing and planetary though, so the Big Cat was a logical next step.

    Newtonians rarely dew up and the speed with which the Skymax dewed surprised me a bit. You'll almost certainly need a powertank and dew control with the ST80 and finderscope. It does have a built in dew sleeve however, which really does help.

    The way I see it, the ST80 solves a lot of problems for both of us. It is light and portable. It should be easy to use on targets from the zenith to the horizon. It is high quality for an inexpensive achromat (almost legendary lol) with manageable CA. Tweaks like filters and helical diagonal focusers can vastly improve its potential. It's good on planetary/lunar, DSO's and apparently for splitting doubles.
     
  15. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    Good thoughts Mak, thanks. Those Orion 9 and 20mm Expanse eyepieces look pretty decent. I stuck the 20mm in the WO and may use it as a finder and then work my way up to the Vixen SLV 4mm for the Moon with the ST. After that I have higher magnification eyepieces and that nice X-Cel 2x Barlow I can try out. I keep praying my arm will recover and I hope the Moon will be visible for me by the time my arm cooperates!
     
  16. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I have the 19mm Panoptic to use as a finder on the ST80. I do have a 20mm TV Plossl as well. The Expanse have always been considered decent. The 20mm would be a great finder I reckon. I think the 9mm is supposed to be the sweet one out of the series. They're on sale at Amazon now, I'm tempted but I'm a tad put off by the undercut. I very nearly bought a 9mm pair for the bino last year. Instead I went with a couple of 9mm Pants Optics Dead Ducks (William Optics SWAN's lol). Is the drawtube on the Expanse aluminium or chromed brass Ray? I find it easier to insert/extract brass tubes with undercuts rather the aluminium ones as their heavier weight helps. How do you find inserting/extracting it from the WO diagonal? I'm guessing you have to do it with one hand, like me.

    moon3.jpg

    The Moon should be approaching First Quarter over New York on Jan 4th, 18:30 local time.

    moon2.jpg
    moon1.jpg

    A couple of days before and after and there will be some great terminator shadows.

    PTOLEMAEUS.jpg
     
  17. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0587.JPG
    Looks like chromed brass Mak. I inserted and extracted it a few times and found that if the eyepiece holder set screw is loosened adequately I had no problem with it. Fairly quality made for give aways I feel!
    I just checked Amazon and, in the US. The 9mm is $60 but the 20mm is listed at $72. I'm sure the UK prices are lower. At $72 the Expanse they included in the package cost a good third of the entire value of the outfit! I got quite a deal on this telescope and it's almost like the GSO 8x50 finder i just ordered was free! I won't feel bad getting another WO diagonal either, but Agena is OOS of course, lol! I did see it other places though but I can wait awhile.
     
  18. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    'OOS?' Our Omnipotent Sponsor, perhaps? :D

    Sorry! I couldn't resist! :p

    Off reading our local news. Seems the Russians have hacked our peaceful, little electric company - Burlington Electric Dept. We're off-the-grid. BED is a stand-alone utility that neither draws on, nor feeds back into, the National Power-Grid. When every 'Grid-Connected' electric company crashed a few years ago - blacking-out 1/2 the country - we were sitting pretty! When the National-Grid demanded we throw the switch and feed our juice to them - which would have knocked us off in about 1/20th of a second - we laughed in their faces! No way!

    We make our own by carefully burning waste-wood compressed into ultra-dense pellet. 100% efficient with no waste, and our scrubbing technology removes all CO2 from being released. All we put out is pure water-vapor as steam.

    Why would the Russians be interested in this? If they asked us, we'd be happy to share the tech. with them (or anyone - we have offered).

    Besides - it's cloudy here tonight!

    Dave :p


    IMG_0399.JPG
     
  19. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it appears too shiny to be aluminium lol. I often find them difficult to extract if they stick suddenly half way through pulling them out. Some undercuts are easier than others. I have to use certain EP's mainly with specific diagonals because of the compression ring.

    The 9mm Expanse will give 44.4x for a 1.8mm exit pupil on the ST80. Plus, virtually one and a half arc minutes AFOV. From your picture it looks nicely compact for a wide angle EP and it has a 2cm eye lens.

    I just couldn't resist pulling the trigger on one. I couldn't find an Orion 6mm, although there are TS Optics and Sky-Watcher equivalents around. I've read that the coatings can vary in quality on some of the non-Orion ones though. The 9mm was supposedly the best of the series from what I've read anyway.

    It will be a bit similar to using the 19mm Panoptic on the Bazooka. That gave me about 47x for a 2.7mm exit pupil with just under one and a half arc minutes AFOV. I think lol.

    I often wonder about the mark-up on individual eyepieces. The RRP of the combined 10 & 25mm Sirius Plossls comes to £71.05p here. That's well over a third of what I paid for the Apex!

    A quick look at Amazon UK shows that the 20mm Sky-Watcher 'Expanse' is about 30 quid, yet its TS Optics equivalent is about £60. I can't find a Sky-Watcher 9mm but the TS Optics version is 20 quid more than what I paid for the Expanse. There's no logic to it. The old adage of 'you get what you pay for' doesn't always apply to astronomical gear. I've seen Celestron Omni Plossls advertised for twice their usual retail value.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  20. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    A wrap of black electrical-tape in the undercut can provide relief. A rag soaked in iso-propyl-alcohol will remove the gum it leaves behind if/when you remove same.

    Dave
     

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