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A Most Interesting Article:

Discussion in 'General Astronomy Chat' started by Dave In Vermont, Sep 9, 2016.

A Most Interesting Article:

Started by Dave In Vermont on Sep 9, 2016 at 4:09 PM

5 Replies 1357 Views 1 Likes

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  1. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    As there's no dedicated sub-forum for discussions of news-articles - such as from Universe Today that is being re-printed & linked-to here, I'll park this here.

    In today's Universe Today (09-09-2016), there's an article entitled 'Uranus & Neptune May Keep "Hitler's Acid." If anyone has an interest in the molecules found and/or sought in the make-up of other planets, this is a fascinating one. More properly called 'ortho-Carbonic Acid' - this has been sought in other worlds as it may be an essential building-block that would act as a precursor to the yet more complex molecules that would be needed to bring about living-organisms.

    This molecule received it's insidious nickname due to it's molecular-figuration. It rather looks like a swatstika - if you could actually see it through an electron-microscope. I'll post the image from UT's article below. It seems the deeper we look into these outer gas-giants, the more incredible surprises that we uncover. I've always had an ineffable curiosity about them - maybe it's for the same reasons I always root for the underdogs? Who knows.....Any who - here's a link to the story:

    http://astronomyconnect.com/forums/...lers-acid-stable-under-massive-pressure.3030/

    I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.

    Cheers,

    Dave


    Hitler's Acid - Orthocarbonic Acid - H4CO4.jpg
     
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  2. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    I read that article. The more I think about the ice and gas giants the more I think they're actually failed stars and not planets at all.
     
  3. Luling_Skies

    Luling_Skies Member

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    The organic molecules found in space amaze me. I understand how stars through fusion reactions create heavy elements and spew them out into space, but organic compounds are much different. Most organic reactions are endothermic so there has to be a source of energy to kick the reaction off, however if the temperature is too hot (> 800 C or so) the molecule will crack back to its constituents. Besides these gas giant planets are extremely cold except in their very outer atmosphere, so where would the energy comes from to drive chemical reactions to form organic molecules like ortho-carbonic acid. So if such compounds are formed on Uranus or Neptune, then there must be a sweet spot somewhere in the atmosphere where the temperature is warm enough for such reactions to occur and the reactants must of course also be present. Alternatively perhaps such compounds are formed in a warm gas cloud near a star and then the compounds drift in space and somehow find its way to these icy planets in the outer solar system. That such chemistry happens frequently enough in the universe to produce large enough quantities of these complex molecules that we can detect them spectroscopically is really mind boggling.
     
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  4. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is the gas and ice giants are extremely hot deep inside probably caused by compaction pressure. Uranus may not be as internally hot but this seems to have been caused by what ever knocked it on its side?the other 3,Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune, generate more heat than they receive from the sun.Jupiter seems to made up of the same stuff as the sun.indeed it gives off such powerful radiation that it blackened the lenses of pioneer 10(or was it 11?)which flew past Jupiter in the 70s on it's way towards interstellar space.as an aside I feel sorry for pioneer 10 and 11 they hardly ever get mentioned when we discuss human made probes leaving the solar system it's always voyager 1and 2 which overtook pioneers 10 and 11.Jupiter doesn't seem to have the mass to be considered a brown dwalf star but the gas giants certainly seem to be part of the bridge twixt stars and planets?
     
  5. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Weird molecule shape. Of course, the swastika was originally a symbol of good luck and almost certainly a sun-wheel depiction. It can be dated back as far as the neolithic and has been discovered in many cultures. I think I had a bit of an X-Files moment there lol.
     
  6. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    The swastika,or similar figures,can be seen in neolithic rock art often in barrows.these tombs are to be found in France, England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland. But there are many other symbols too, the possibly depict the moon,sun,planets and stars. Strangely far across the globe aboriginal rock art in Australia is very similar. I suspect however that they are images seen during trance like states and that the artists thought that the images where spirits.if you look at pictures of Finnish aircraft dating from the Finno Russian war you'll see the swastika on the plane sides reversed and on a white background plus the Finnish one is blue unlike the black German one.
     

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