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Kim Stanley Robinson :Mars trilogy.

Discussion in 'General Astronomy Chat' started by kevan hubbard, Feb 16, 2018.

Kim Stanley Robinson :Mars trilogy.

Started by kevan hubbard on Feb 16, 2018 at 3:05 PM

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  1. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    I'm on the last of Kim Stanley Robinson's books on the human terraforming of Mars. Yes they're very good but he seems to have missed the very patchy magnetic field of Mars which can't protect any atmosphere you develop there,although I've never heard a reasonable answer as to why Venus with no magnetic field has such a thick atmosphere. He has an interesting idea of putting a 'solleta'in orbit around Mars and tracking the rising sun,mirrors in the solleta artificially increase the suns diameter and thus output at the Mars distance. Another problem with Mars is the weak gravity about 38 percent of earth or Venus what long term health effects would it have on un-enginered humans?would I go.........probably yes!
     
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  2. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    If I could fly an air-conditioned derigible high-up over Venus - to keep the temperature tolerable and not need a billion-gallons of fuel or such - I'd rather do a photo-essay of the entire planet than go to Mars. I find Venus much more mysterious than Mars. I call Venus 'The Onion-Planet.' Reason being that once you figure out one layer of this mysterious orb, another one is revealed.

    And 'Onion-Planet' seems much more apropos than 'Sister-Planet' from where I'm sitting.


    Akatsuki’s Amazing Views of Venus.jpg
    Photo by the New Akatsuki Probe
     
  3. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    I think it is tonight,17th,that Venus returns to our night skies but it'll be low and visible a half hour after sunset.here's the theory as to why the solar wind has not blown away Venus's atmosphere;as the solar wind interacts with the thick atmosphere it creates a pseudo magnetic field caused by the interaction twixt the particles of solar wind and the atmospheric particles. This acts like a proper magnetic field to protect the atmosphere,well that's one theory but it seems to me nobody really knows unless the theory about the solar wind stripping atmospheres is wrong?Mars is much further from the sun and even has a reminant patchy magnetic field yet is losing it's atmosphere or so they think?Titan has a thick atmosphere and no magnetic field but it is far from the sun plus Saturn's magnetic field will protect it as it must spend much of it's time behind Saturn .
     
  4. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, Kevan. Or it might be a form of Solar-Physics with it's wind doing things we don't yet understand about it having properties we also don't understand?

    Herein lays another layer of the Onion-Planet! This is a good example of what I was talking about! :p I only wonder what the next one to be revealed. There will be, I'm quite convinced of.
     
  5. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    If it's true about the reactions between the solar wind and the planetary atmosphere then all you'd need would be to thicken up Mars's atmosphere and then a pseudo magnetosphere would be created.of course Mars doesn't have as much gravity to hold onto a atmosphere. Mercury has a magnetosphere but only a tenuous atmosphere thought to be gas stolen from the solar wind.Venus would probably develop a magnetosphere if it could be spun as fast as earth unless of course its core is no longer molten?there's evidence for a molten core due to possible volcanic activity on Venus but no body knows if its volcanoes are still active?
     
  6. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    And there be yet another skin of the onion! :p I like mysteries.
     
  7. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    One theory about Venus's thick atmosphere and why it hasn't blown away lacking a magnetosphere is it's constantly being replenished by volcanic eruptions.this is guess work in my view as we don't know if Venus has active volcanos. No evidence it does no evidence it doesn't! It's not a nice world to be rains of hydrochloric and sulphuric acids,90 earth air pressure and about 400c,it's amazing the Russian probes lasted as long as they did.I saw Venus tonight just after sunset,about 1730 hrs..looked like a fullish disk but the low altitude and some of earth's clouds on the move limited what I could see.
     
  8. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Stellarium gives the correct phase. And 'zooming' in gives one a detailed map of the surface-details that would be seen if the atmosphere got out of the way.

    Back around 2003 Shuyler (Bought by Astrodon) offered a UV-Venus Filter to aid getting a photograph of the odd sort-of-hook in the atmosphere that was/is a constant formation (and another 'onion-skin'):


    Venus122808Parker3 (PNG).png


    These originally cost a hefty $349 and was only available as a 1.25" model. Not sure about today, but the price has dropped.

    Some folk's have said that a Wratten #47 Violet-Filter will also let you see this formation. I've never tried this though, as I don't have a good East or West horizon to set up a monster-scope at.
     
  9. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    West at the moment. Venus tends to flare due to it's brightness. I've never seen cloud details on it,it just looks white.over the years I've looked at it with various, telescopes,monoculars,binoculars and naked eyes.the phases can been seen at 8x and some report that the naked eye can see them although I'm rather doubtful about that.often we can see what we want to see especially if we know it's there!if you get a hazy day or very thin mist that takes the sting out for Venus and makes seeing the phases easier.when it gets higher I'll try my 5x10 Zeiss mini quick monocular on it and see if 5x is enough to show the phases.
     
  10. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I have a nice 4 X 12mm Carton Optical Industries one. Beautiful view from something that easily fits in a shirt-pocket. Carton is Japanese and made the optics for such critters as EdsCorp and Unitron refractors. And a million others 'back in the day.' Back before the APO and triplet trend priced astronomy seemingly out of the reach of us mere mortals!

    My advocating such scopes as the ST80 isn't just a statement about optics, it's a political action to endorse the common worker's right to the Universe. :p
     
  11. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    Can you pick up Venus's phases and Jupiter's moons in a 4x12?I've seen Uranus in my Zeiss 5x10 monocular and had at least one of Jupiter's moons.I think the light grabbing of the 10mm is very poor and far far inferior to the 8x25.in fact I think my 8x25 has far more in common with my 10x42 than it does with the 5x10.for example I can just pick up m51,m66 and m101 in the 8x25 although I can never be sure of m1,m82,m110,m32,m57 but I'm pretty sure it just pulls them in.the 10x42 is the same except brighter and bigger and I'm 100 percent sure of m82 and m1.
     
  12. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Don't know yet. It's been snowing and can't see diddly. Next Up - A Flood Warning decends upon us.

    Vermont has 5 Seasons: Spring. Summer. Fall. Winter. And MUD! The Good News: We are entering MUD. I'm trying to continue my hibernation. The Bad News: I'm succeeding.

    This Winter has been one of the worst in recent memory.
     
  13. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    I've never been to Vermont in winter but some years back I took a bus from Boston to Montreal (I had a girlfriend in Boston at the time and took a side trip to get Canada under the belt). I saw the green and white mountains, they looked heavily wooded,and just the thing to block out Venus and mercury! If I recall they where in New Hampshire and Vermont but suddenly end at Quebec. Not particular high by world standards but it wouldn't seem that way if you got lost in them!
     

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